How to Become a Contract OT with Ashley Hobson, OTR/L
Ashley Hobson, OTR/L, is an amazing Occupational Therapist who will inspire you to take more risks, reduce your feelings of burnout, and find balance in your life by discovering different settings you can work in.
Ashley is super passionate about OTs dipping their toe in the waters of entreprenuership by becoming contract OTs. She herself worked as a contract OT which she found gave her the perfect opportunity to seamlessly integrate her passion for OT with a balanced life. Listen to this interview to discover how to embrace an entreprenuerial mindset, how to start as a contract OT and how to embrace your inner leadership qualities to transform your life.
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Transcript:
Doug:
Today I am sharing my interview with the amazing OT Ashley Hobson. We cover how to make more money as a contract therapist, how to get started as a contract therapist and why entrepreneurship is so important for OTs and why she has a personal passion for it as an O T D Capstone Coordinator. So Ashley is a assistant professor, O T d Capstone Coordinator, lend fellow and core faculty and certified interprofessional educator at the University of Oklahoma Health Services Center. Ashley teaches the entry level and post-professional programs in the Department of Rehabilitation Services and is very intentional about embedding professionalism and leadership development into the student experience. Ashley lives by what she teaches and is a big leader herself in her own community. She serves on several community organization executive boards. She serves on several department and college committees and is a core speaker for Wells Wellspring, which is a community-based conference focused on family health and wellness. And Ashley teaches the leadership and management course for the O T D program, which is a topic that she is particularly passionate about and it is her hope that all students complete the OT program equipped to be leaders in practice as well as have the skills to entrepreneurship and develop innovative practices if they have an interest in doing so. Enjoy this interview. So today I am joined by the incredible Ashley, and I just wanna say thank you very much for joining us today.
Ashley:
Thank you for having me. I'm excited.
Doug:
Absolutely. So I wanna kick off because you were raised in an entrepreneurial family. So could you tell us a little bit about that upbringing and what were some of the lessons that you find yourself thinking about today?
Ashley:
Sure. Yeah. So my dad was actually born in Luxembourg and he moved over, they came to America when he was a baby and he grew up with very little, so he, he grew up watching construction and playing on construction sites for fun and developed this passion for construction. So fast forward to college, he and my mom meet, my mom was in OT school at the time, so he developed this passion for construction and with the goal of creating a construction company one day, she was an ot. And so I got to grow up with the best of both worlds with a dad who worked his way up through the construction industry, earned four degrees and now has a construction company that he helped build from the ground up. And then I have a mom who has practiced as, she's no longer practicing, but she practiced my entire childhood as an occupational therapist. So I got to really learn that compassion, the passion she has for serving others kindness, integrity.
OTs Can Embrace Obstacles
Doug:
That's incredible. And what were some of the, I think, struggles that maybe you saw your, your father go through with building the, the construction company that he had that you think have influenced the way you approach your career?
Ashley:
That's a great question. So one thing he, when they had us, we were, they were both starting their careers. I say us, I have one older brother, the two of us. So we're close-knit family. We don't have any cousins or anything. But they had us and then he continued on with school. So as he was learning the construction industry and working his way up on the business side, he was also juggling having two young children and going to school. And so one thing that he really emphasized to us was not to see obstacles as absolutes. So, and they're not noss, they're just have to figure out a way to navigate them. So that, and then he also emphasized that failure was part of the process of getting to your goals. So that is one thing that's always resonated with me, that failure is an inevitable experience. If you are going to set big goals for yourself and not to attempt to avoid them, they're going to happen. And usually they're helpful in the long run.
Doug:
Yeah, I, I love that. And that's something that my wife and I see a lot with the way that we're raising our kids, you know, since we're both entrepreneurs and we're constantly talking to them about, there's a book by the title of the Gift of Failure about raising children with a growth mindset, you know, and how mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, you can't do every single thing for them, you know, and you want to raise them to have, you know, the embrace of uncertainty, the embrace of, of challenge. And to realize that a lot of times the setbacks are just really temporary. And I think absolutely the real growth mindset, but also like a real entrepreneurial mindset. 'cause If you've been in it for any amount of time, you absolutely know things don't go <laugh> according to plan right
Ashley:
Away. And if you grow up in it, it's not uncomfortable to you. Right. Right. Like you don't see failure as a bad thing. You see it as a learning process. Yes. And so you guys probably do this as well, what my parents did with this, they would always emphasize the process, not the product. Yeah. For us. So even though I'm sure they had products, you know, like end goals in mind that they knew they had to meet in some capacity for us, whenever we would try something new, it was always EI emphasis on what were we learning, what were we taking from that? Yeah. If we failed, no big deal. We tried something new, we had, you know, the, we would dare to try, we would have the confidence to try something new.
Doug:
Yeah. And that reminds me, it's one of the things that I talk about with some of the OTs that I coach, which is to, you mentioned focused on the, the process rather than the end product. And that's the way I kind of talk to them about setting goals is don't have your goals be a fixed number. Right? Say that you wanna see like a certain number of clients or that you want a certain end result. Set your goals based on like, what is the process you're gonna follow? What are the tasks that you're actually gonna do? 'cause The only thing you can control is your effort. You can't control the outcome. So if you set up the effort around the activities that you think is gonna really lead to the outcome, then you're gonna become much less disappointed. 'cause You're controlling the one thing that you can control, which is what you're working on versus what the outcome is.
Ashley:
Absolutely. And it sounds like you're emphasizing the, the importance of pre-planning and being intentional Yes. With, with what you are doing. And I feel like with that, that really reiterates the whole being focused on the mission. Like your why, why you're doing what you're doing, not necessarily how you're doing it. You can pivot if you are focused on the purpose. Right. And if you're learning through the process and you're not afraid to navigate the different changes based on, you know, whatever challenges they are, you know, have to recalculate. I'm sure you've done it a lot in business with having to, based on the current status of like even just our society and the needs and technology really navigating all of those changes and what do they mean?
Becoming a Contract Occupational Therapist Has a Ton of Benefits
Doug:
Yes. Yeah, I think being flexible is absolutely key. And one of the things that you are quite an expert at is contract therapy. So becoming a contractor, and I'm excited to explore this topic with you because, you know, we've talked about it before. Becoming a contract therapist is a great way to dip your toes into working for yourself. And so what are some, what do you find are some of the benefits to becoming a contract therapist for OTs?
Ashley:
Yes. So I really do feel like this is the perfect way to get into having a business with a little added security of more support than you might feel like if you just completely started from scratch. I feel like for me there's like personal benefits and also professional benefits. So personally, contract therapy allowed me to have time and flexibility. So I have two boys and I was able to build my schedule around being with them more, especially before they were both school aged, which was huge to me. It provided me the time in my schedule to pursue my goal of going back for my post-professional degree because I was able to build my schedule around when my classes would be and what my kids were needing professionally. Oh gosh, I have a whole list. <Laugh>, I feel like autonomy and leadership experience were huge. So having that say in how I was going to practice the settings I was going to practice in the populations, I would be able to serve with my skills and expertise leading, developing my leadership skills for myself.
And then also having a small team because I was still able to have OTAs that I would work with on my team and build the small team without necessarily feeling like I was in charge of an entire organization. And networking opportunities is another big one. So learning how to make valuable connections and talk about what I was able to do, like what services I could provide, what skillset I had, making professional relationships. And then also turning those and using those to find my community relationships. So I have patients that I saw who became dear friends because I had time being a contract therapist. I had time to connect and really develop a strong relationship with them. And down the road, those are people who connected me with community organizations that I still serve and work with today. So I feel like a, a lot of opportunities opened up.
I developed management skills because in contract you have to be able to manage your own time, you have to be able to take into consideration the costs. You're in charge of more of your expenses and taxes and some of the more logistics of business, but not necessarily full business yet <laugh>. And then opportunities to be innovative. So when I was a contract therapist, I was able to identify different organizations and populations that I wanted to serve and I could create contracts with them. So I didn't have fall under this preset umbrella of where I could and couldn't practice based on my setting.
Doug:
That's, that's wonderful. I think it's a great way to dip your toes into that entrepreneurial field. And probably some, some OTs will start doing it and they find out they love it and they want to go even further and go, okay, I wanna do this full-time, I want to have my own business and I'm comfortable not really having that safety net of the, you know, W two position. But then probably other OTs are like you know what, it's a little bit too uncertain, it's a little bit too risky. And actually, you know, I would prefer to go back to a W two. And I think it's a great, I mean, it's a great intermediate step to really sit and to see how it feels in your body and how it feels in your life. And before you take a really big plunge. Right?
Ashley:
Yes. And I feel like it's also something that you don't have to not do because you also need some stability. So a lot of people will have a job that's their full-time job where they're, you know, 36 hours a week and then they contract on the side for supplemental and then they grow their contract because their contract work because they love it so much and they're able to kinda fade out of whichever setting they might not feel is the best fit for them. And I think that's wonderful about it too. Yeah. I do see a lot of people really realizing how much they love it and how having the ability to have more say in how you spend your day and how you spend your time, it's not as hard as they thought it would be. Yeah. And they end up loving it, you know, it, it's just getting the right resources and supports along the way.
OTs Can Change Their Setting to Relieve Burnout
Doug:
Yeah. I think, and I hear this a lot from a lot of OTs who get maybe a little bit frustrated that they don't have that autonomy, they don't have the control, they don't have the flexibility. They feel really, really tied down. And when I'm talking with 'em, I always tell them like, that's most likely the location or the specific environment you're working in. It's not the entire field. 'cause There's so many different ways that you can practice and you have these really valuable skill sets that actually there's a lot of abundance and flexible work positions out there that will allow you to show up in the way that you want to show up. And that also fits your life. Which I think is really empowering.
Ashley:
So I love that because I do think, I think the exact same thing. I think if you are feeling burnt out in ot, you're in the wrong setting. Yeah. Because you can be virtually anywhere. Right? Right. We have so many settings that we can practice in. And whenever you, if you feel undervalued, that's also a setting problem. So if you are, you know, I feel like there's almost always a solution that to me is an obstacle that you can navigate. It doesn't mean abandon your profession, it doesn't mean that this isn't the right fit in what you love doing somehow is not really what you're meant to do.
Doug:
And I think that that comes from your, your, your upbringing. So, 'cause you started off with like, okay, if my parents taught me that if there is a problem, there has to be a solution. If there's a challenge, we're just gonna be able to find a, a way to fix that challenge in a way that works for you.
Ashley:
Yes. There's very few problems that don't have some solution.
Doug:
Yes. Yes. It may not be totally obvious, but it is definitely there. And I always, one thing that I always think about is, you're not the only person in the entire world who's ever faced this. And so a lot of times it's just getting out there and talking with people and seeing other ways you can practice what have other OTs done. Because the more you shrink your world and you focus on it just being your individual problem without a solution, it's gonna be very hard to always come up with the options. But once you get out and you start networking, you start talking to your colleagues, you start talking to people in different settings, your kind of whole world and perspective opens up and you can start to imagine the different possibilities and not feel, I think so stuck, you know,
Ashley:
And hearing people's stories about how they learned and worked through the process instead of assuming that everyone who's doing it somehow has this expansive expertise that you don't. Right. Right. Like there and now there are so many resources available for what you don't know that there's really not a reason to try.
How Can OTs Get Started As A Contract Therapist?
Doug:
Yes, absolutely. So could you give all of the OTs kind of an overview of the different ways that you could contract and perhaps some tips if they want to get started with this?
Ashley:
Sure. Yeah. So with contract, you can either contract through yourself, you create an L L C, I would recommend creating an L L C either way and having a business account. And then you can either seek out your own contracts or you can contract with an agency that's going to negotiate contracts for you and then reimburse you for those. So when I started contracting, I worked for an organization and entity and I, whenever I was paid, I would keep 80% of everything I billed, which I felt was pretty fair because of when you think about all of the logistics of the documentation system and things like that. But you can also do it without having any type of agency helping you. And you can seek out your own contracts and negotiate directly with organizations and insurance companies or out of pocket private pay. And you can either be reimbursed a percentage of what you bill or you can be reimbursed a flat rate based on the service provided.
So I don't see a reason to ever not offer an out of pocket or private pay option because that opens up your opportunities to the services you're able to provide. But you can do like school contracts, you can do insurance contracts, you can do private pay, you can contract with hospitals, virtually any setting. We have OT you can contract and you can also create opportunities where they don't exist. So one thing I think I typically used to think of as being academia only was grant opportunities. But there are a lot of community-based grants that exist that organizations have. And you can go to nonprofits and contract with them if you are able to explain your expertise, your role and what you can provide them. You can also contract directly with nonprofit organizations. So it depends on, again, whether you are contracting directly with places through an L L C or if you are a contractor with an agency, some agencies will reimburse for mileage.
You can negotiate that into contracts. When I was at a, in a public school setting, I would get reimbursed for my drive time, my documentation time, anytime I was on the clock for them it was the same rate. So you can negotiate all of those things as you establish contracts with different organizations. And then you can ask if they reimburse for CEUs or do they cover a percentage of insurance or some will cover the cost of your licensure and your renewal fees. And they will also cover just like a flat rate for mileage. So those are all things you wanna consider because depending on your financial situation, if you have the option to be on a significant other's insurance or do you need your own insurance, do you need your paycheck to be consistent or is it okay if it fluctuates a little bit? So those are things that I would consider when you're looking at how you want to contract. But there's an option that works for either.
Doug:
And would you say in of compensation, the level of compensation for per client visit or per hour, whatever unit of measurement you want to define is higher in the contracting space versus if you were a full-time W two employee at
Ashley:
W a hundred percent <laugh>? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I was able to make the same or more contracting than I three to three and a half days a week that I was able to make five days a week as a full-time employee.
Doug:
I mean, that's significant right there. I think because, you know, you have, I, I think it's really empowering to know that you can be doing the same type of work, but you can have more flexibility in your schedule. Yes, you can have more control over the settings that you're working in and you can potentially work less, but either make the same amount or actually make more that it's not some, you know, a I talk to a lot of OTs and they feel very stuck from a money perspective. Yes. You know, because they're making 37 to $42 an hour net when it's all said and done for the 40 hours or 36 hours, they're working that week and they have a massive amount of student loans and they feel very, very squeezed in, in the middle and mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, I think it's a great option for OTs like that to explore either keeping your full-time job and adding this as a, as an add-on to start paying down your student loans or just depending on your life situation, going into just being a full-time or part-time contracting therapist and having a little bit more flexibility in your schedule and keeping your income at the same or a higher level.
OTs Can Absolutely Make 6-Figures
Ashley:
I completely agree. I really, I think that there is no reason people should believe that OTs cannot make six figures and live comfortably and have balance and do well. Some of that I feel like is a, comes from, you know, not being comfortable discussing how to change that or how we, we used to not really talk about hourly rates or income in general. It was kind of taboo. And now we have this understanding that that's why a lot of people were stuck where they were because they were believing this. And that really benefits a few larger organizations that like to keep everything at the top. But we are a very valuable service. We're a very needed service and we have a lot of expertise to bring to the table that really makes a difference in people's lives. So there is no reason not to be compensated fairly for that. And,
Doug:
And I was like a truth bomb right there. Like we could end the whole interview just <laugh> just on that because I think ev all OTs need to, to hear that more and more and like again and, and again to feel comfortable stepping into that. 'cause It, you're right. I mean, it's a really taboo topic and especially in healthcare in general, money in society in general is very taboo, but especially within healthcare. And I just think it's really refreshing to hear other OTs kind of empower each other and go like, look, you're really valuable. You've spent a long time at school. You are fundamentally changing people's lives. Like, you know, if you look at your compensation versus a mechanic, a mechanic is probably making more like why, why is that? And, and you are providing something way more valuable, whether that, and it's just a matter of getting out of the status quo about how OTs been practiced for a long time and finding creative solutions to boost your income along the way. There's nothing that matter with that.
Ashley:
There's nothing Yeah, exactly. And I, and I wonder some of that, I feel like you're an entrepreneur. I grew up in an entrepreneurial family. I feel like you like talking about money is not wrong, <laugh>, it's transparency. It's just kind of part of what you do. I think that financial literacy is very helpful. We don't get that in traditional education in our programs. A lot of the time it's excluded. So we say, advocate for yourself, talk about, you know, make sure that you're no one's taking advantage of you, that you're not being underpaid, but we don't say what that is. Right. And so left I think of numbers <laugh>.
Doug:
Yes. Yeah. I, I'll I would say that ask yourself this one question, which is, do you maybe have too high of a tolerance for being underpaid? Right? Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And that's a great, I think I, I think that ends up happening a a a lot and we don't really question it, but I talk a lot about like money mindset and limiting beliefs behind money. And I think that's really, really prevalent within the, the healthcare field and starting to reconcile your own money stories and the invisible scripts you have about money and asking yourself like internally, like, why, why do I have this ability to put up with being under earned? It's, it's the same side of the equation or the same side of the coin. I think for people who overspend and are maybe too ambitious, I think both reflect kind of a unhealthy balance towards relationship towards money. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and it's, it's, you know, you don't have to go the other extreme. It's kind of more just looking at it as a neutral thing and going, it's just fair compensation for what I'm providing someone. So,
Ashley:
And it allows me to provide quality of life. I want to be able to provide for myself, for my kids. It's not selfish to wanna be able to take care of your own health and wellbeing and the health and wellbeing of your family.
Doug:
That's totally right. That's totally right. I think one of the most important aspects of stepping up as an entrepreneur talking about entrepreneurship is embracing your inner leader. And I think we all have this capacity to be a leader, like whether or not it's just us in our own lives or influencing others. And I think you teach a course called leadership and management at university. So what do you find is the difference between a leader versus a manager and how could OTs apply this principle in their life?
Embrace Your Inner OT Leader
Ashley:
So for me, the most basic way to break it down is that we, we lead people, we manage things. Hmm. Right. Okay. So we manage tasks, we manage obligations, but people don't want to be managed. They want to have leadership, they want to be able to grow. They want someone who is passionate and shares the same vision that they do. So whenever we approach leadership versus management, yes. A lot of leadership requires management skills. You have to be able to manage your time, your resources. It's hard to be successful in larger leadership roles without having management skills. But we cannot use them interchangeably because leadership is really about the relationship we have with people, the difference we're making in the lives of others. And it's really, when I think of the foundation of leadership, it is kindness, respect for others and wanting to serve others and see others succeed.
Doug:
Yeah. And I think there's a, there's a powerful corollary to that in wanting to see others succeed, which is influence, you know, and the more you want, I, I find the more you want other people to succeed and the more you set them up for success, the more influential you become because mm-hmm. <Affirmative> people want to surround themselves with people who lift them up, not, or just assigning task to them at the end of the day
Ashley:
Assigning tasks and taking credit. Right, exactly. Yeah. So that's, we also go into the difference between a leader and a boss because you can be assigned a position of authority or power and not be a leader and your team will not thrive. Right? Yeah. But if you are leading people and you are passionate about what you are doing and you are helping others become passionate about what they're doing, the whole group moves forward. And that's a much greater impact than what we can have ourselves. Yeah.
Doug:
Yeah. I think it's a misnomer that you need a title to be a leader, you know, like you Exactly. You don't need a title to, to be a, a leader. So what, what's like one thing, maybe someone doesn't, maybe someone's branching out on their own, they just have themselves, they don't have a team. Is there like one leadership principle they could apply in their, in their life that would be most valuable?
Ashley:
Yes. So growth mindset I think is the one of the core principles of leadership. So that can, because it, it encompasses all other areas of leadership. As society changes, as our cultures change and we evolve, we have different perspectives and interactions that are going to change different leadership skills we have. But a commitment to that growth mindset and whether it's formal or informal learning that we're committed to doing that continuous growth is going to be what always helps us move forward and have impact. I, my dad, one thing he always does is he, it started, he started this when, when we were in high school, we get a book every holiday. So a lot of them are either personal development or professional development. And the Slight Edge by Jeff Olsson talks about how you're either always, you're never stagnant, so you're always moving forward or you're moving back because everything else is moving forward without you. Hmm.
Doug:
I love that.
Ashley:
So having that commitment to lifelong learning and continuous growth is crucial. And also just knowing that personal development is leadership development. Yep.
Mindset Is Your Most Important Asset as an OT Business Owner
Doug:
Yeah. Because yeah, a hundred percent agree with that <laugh>. Yeah. I think especially when it comes to, I mean definitely that's true in all areas of life. And I think, 'cause I coach a lot of OTs wanting to start their own private pay practice. And one of the things we talk about a lot in the program is mindset and about the personal development. And I say to them at the very beginning when they enroll, like, the hardest thing that you're gonna manage throughout this entire process is yourself. You know? Yes. It's, it's, that's, that's who you're guess you're gonna be impacting clients that's gonna go without saying, you know, let's almost just 'cause you're an ot, you have great skills, like, you know you're gonna be changing their lives. But then a lot of the OTs are just so surprised by how much they change through the process.
Like how much inner resilience it requires, how much it requires to be comfortable being uncomfortable. And they start to find like this inner strength to be confident, to have difficult phone conversations or to talk about money with their clients. And all of this stuff requires you to get out of your comfort zone and, and grow. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you know, the most successful ones are the ones who just go, okay, well that's, that's a challenge. You know, that's the next skill that I need to develop. It's a skill I can develop. Let's find out how to develop that in the best way possible.
Ashley:
Right. And it's not something that makes or breaks whether I can be successful in my goals. Right. Right. It's just something I need to grow and learn in. And I love that. Yes.
Doug:
So you are doing great work with OT students and kind of showing them, you know, what's possible from an entrepreneurialship perspective and what is some of your advice to OTs who wanna start down this path but are nervous if they could really do it?
Ashley:
Okay, so very first piece of advice is not to place limitations on yourself because the first thing that's going to be the reason you're not successful is never trying. Right. So that would be the first is that do not assume you are not capable because we can break things down into small, small steps as small as we need to Yeah. To be successful and to learn how to navigate. So don't let fear or getting out of your comfort zone be a limiting factor.
Doug:
Yep.
Ashley:
I tell my students that <laugh>, I believe in being an entrepreneur so much. Like if I could, if it was ethical <laugh>, I would buy them all an L L C as their graduation gift because there's no reason not to. Right. There's no reason not to have the option that if you wanted to start providing a service outside of your current setting that you'd be able to do so.
Doug:
Yep.
Ashley:
And I know you talk a lot about, you know, the, the doors that open whenever you step outside of the insurance box.
Doug:
Yes, yes.
Ashley:
<Laugh>. And that's so true. So why not go ahead and, you know, anybody could, could seek you out for the opportunity for, for private pay services. So having that, another another thing to remember is that there's almost always a solution or a way around every barrier. Yeah. So when you hit roadblocks, when you hit challenges, like you're saying like that's just a skill to learn. That's not a no or you are not capable, it's just you don't know it yet.
Doug:
Right. Yeah. That's the power of the word. Yet if you just add the word yet to anything of like, oh, I don't, I don't know how to market yet, or I don't know how to bill yet, I don't know, you know, it kind of reframes your mind to go, alright, well this is just something I can learn. And thousands of other people have learned this and I'm just as smart and capable as they are <laugh>, you know, and Yes.
Ashley:
I love that so much. Yes. Add, just adding yet or I can't do it yet. Right. Like that anything is possible. You just have to be willing to learn and grow. Yep. Another thing though, this is like a little bit more like practical is not to spend time reinventing the wheel when great resources exist, like your entire program. Like why spend time, why would someone spend time going and trying to find a ton of different resources from different places whenever it's already available to them. Like package, you know, you've done the work, you have the expertise, so don't try to, don't spend all of your energy on your weaknesses whenever there's someone else's strengths. Right? Yeah. You rely on your strengths and then find the resources and supports that already exists from people who have the strengths that you don't.
Doug:
Yeah. I, I think that that's great advice because exactly as you said, why would you reinvent the wheel? Like, you know, coaching and programs, they're not gonna do everything for you, but they're gonna help you. There's always a blind spot in that we don't know what we don't know. You know? And, and that is a really, there's a really high cost to crossing that barrier. And if you try to do it on your own, which my wife and I, we tried to do it on our own and we did do it on our own, but it took us many years to, to figure it out. And we made a ton of mistakes along the way. And then just being able to go, okay, look, we tried these hundred things, 10 of them worked, just go do the 10, you know? Yes. Don't waste your time on the 90, just go do the 10 because you're gonna try lots of stuff and most of it's not gonna move the needle. It's the 80 20 principle. And so finding that, you know, 80% to, to really fo or the 20% to really focus on, and that's what I think really curated content can do, custom programs and everything, and it just gets you towards your goal faster, you know?
Ashley:
Absolutely. Especially when you're like, okay, I, I want to do this, but I don't have a hundred mistakes Yeah. In me, like I don't have that many, I don't have that kind of time or those resources to, to navigate through all of those. Well, you don't have to because someone else already has. Yeah. So you, what's available,
Doug:
You said something in the very beginning that I wanted to circle back to, which was just there's no reason not to do it. And you know, just go ahead and give yourself the option. And I, I love that because I think a lot of, a lot of times people overestimate how hard it is and also how costly it is. And I always like to compare it to like setting up a dental practice, you know, or setting up a coffee shop. Like not
Ashley:
Even close
Doug:
<Laugh>, it's not even exactly like before, like think about a dentist, like before they open their doors, they have to sign a big lease, they have to buy all this really expensive equipment, they have to hire dental hygienists, they have to hire front office staff. Like their bill is so expensive before they ever even get one patient into the door. But as an ot, you can start mobile, you can start as a contract, you just need the L L C and some liability insurance. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And you don't have to have a physical location. You probably have most of the props and equipment you need to see your first client and then you can grow over time. So always look at it like what's the worst that can happen is you've just spent some time, you haven't spent a ton of money, you've just spent your time and,
Ashley:
And you will learn regardless. Exactly. Right? Yes. You'll learn through that.
Doug:
Yes, 100%.
Ashley:
We are very unique in that in most settings we carry everything we need in ourselves, right? Right. So when I was con I did bagless therapy, I would walk into homes and work with children and families and I would have nothing with me. I needed nothing other than myself. And we have that expertise, like we are our, our resources and our skills and our expertise, right? Yes. So less than a thousand dollars to have the ability to, I'd say that speak where, where I am <laugh>. Yeah, for sure. Less. And I feel like that in most areas, like for the basics of what you need less than a thousand dollars to start. So why not?
Doug:
Exactly. Why, why, why not? And I think, what do you have to lose? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So I think that's a perfect thing to, to end it on, which is yes, what do you have to lose? You, you just, you don't really have anything to lose and you have a ton of stuff to, to gain. To gain. So Ashley, I just want to thank you so much for sharing all of your insights. This has been incredible talking with you today and I can't wait to thank you so much to share it with, with everyone. Thank you. I'm
Ashley:
So excited too. Thank you.
